[clubjoker]

Hi all. What a great project and community this is!

I've been looking around here for a while now, and would like to get started ordering components for a build.

First question is about the RX unit PCBs. Why is the Pro2 PLUS RX v1.3x (EUR52.90) so much more expensive than a Pro2 RX v5.02 (EUR17.90). My understanding is that in both cases the price is for a PCB with the SMD components soldered on to it, and no other components (like radios, Arduinos) supplied. What has the PLUS got that adds so much to the cost? This is a straight question, not at all a complaint - I would just like to understand.

John

[clubjoker]

Is it the wifi?

[AllanG]

Hi all. What a great project and community this is!

I've been looking around here for a while now, and would like to get started ordering components for a build.

First question is about the RX unit PCBs. Why is the Pro2 PLUS RX v1.3x (EUR52.90) so much more expensive than a Pro2 RX v5.02 (EUR17.90). My understanding is that in both cases the price is for a PCB with the SMD components soldered on to it, and no other components (like radios, Arduinos) supplied. What has the PLUS got that adds so much to the cost? This is a straight question, not at all a complaint - I would just like to understand.

John

Hello John and welcome the wonderful world of the WeatherDuino.

I'm very glad you've emphasised that your "first question about the [PLUS] rx unit pcb" isn't at all a complaint and I understand that - more about it later though.

To be honest I really don't *know* the answer to the question why the PLUS rx pcb costs quite a bit more than the (ageing - Nov. 2015) v.5.02 and I'm sure Werk_AG will be along soon to give you the facts. I *think* though that factors such as the increased physical dimensions of the board, the added complexity of a different Arduino with considerably more pins, the addition of Wi-Fi capability (not just the cost of the device itself) and quite a few other hardware changes will have had an impact. I have never tried to have a pcb professionally produced so do not know how production costs are calculated, but again guessing, I would imagine the number of through-hole connections, vias, routing and overall complexity would play a large part - if you're interested you may like to look online at one or two producers and see what they say. Having constructed both the v5.02 and only this week the PLUS boards though, I'm very sure the PLUS production costs will be much, much greater. As I said, I'm sure Werk will be along and I'll be interested to see if my thoughts are correct - and what I've *not* thought about!!

I know you said that your question isn't a complaint and I'm very glad because this really is a very versatile, superb project and personally I would have been happy to pay double for the PLUS boards and would still consider it a bargain. I came across the WeatherDuino shortly after its "birth" when I needed to replace a Maplin setup that was rapidly failing. I really wanted to buy a Davis station, but the cost of £600 - £800 for what I wanted was not an option. Thanks to Werk and the WeatherDuino, I have a system (with the addition of Davis wind and rain instruments) that I beleive is equal in performance and accuracy to the Davis station, but at a very small fraction of the cost. Actually, if the air particle "module" which is currently being worked on *is* successfully added, WeatherDuino will be the *only* system I know of with such remarkable capability.

Best regards,

Allan.

[clubjoker]

Hi all. What a great project and community this is!

I've been looking around here for a while now, and would like to get started ordering components for a build.

First question is about the RX unit PCBs. Why is the Pro2 PLUS RX v1.3x (EUR52.90) so much more expensive than a Pro2 RX v5.02 (EUR17.90). My understanding is that in both cases the price is for a PCB with the SMD components soldered on to it, and no other components (like radios, Arduinos) supplied. What has the PLUS got that adds so much to the cost? This is a straight question, not at all a complaint - I would just like to understand.

John

Hello John and welcome the wonderful world of the WeatherDuino.

I'm very glad you've emphasised that your "first question about the [PLUS] rx unit pcb" isn't at all a complaint and I understand that - more about it later though.

To be honest I really don't *know* the answer to the question why the PLUS rx pcb costs quite a bit more than the (ageing - Nov. 2015) v.5.02 and I'm sure Werk_AG will be along soon to give you the facts. I *think* though that factors such as the increased physical dimensions of the board, the added complexity of a different Arduino with considerably more pins, the addition of Wi-Fi capability (not just the cost of the device itself) and quite a few other hardware changes will have had an impact. I have never tried to have a pcb professionally produced so do not know how production costs are calculated, but again guessing, I would imagine the number of through-hole connections, vias, routing and overall complexity would play a large part - if you're interested you may like to look online at one or two producers and see what they say. Having constructed both the v5.02 and only this week the PLUS boards though, I'm very sure the PLUS production costs will be much, much greater. As I said, I'm sure Werk will be along and I'll be interested to see if my thoughts are correct - and what I've *not* thought about!!

I know you said that your question isn't a complaint and I'm very glad because this really is a very versatile, superb project and personally I would have been happy to pay double for the PLUS boards and would still consider it a bargain. I came across the WeatherDuino shortly after its "birth" when I needed to replace a Maplin setup that was rapidly failing. I really wanted to buy a Davis station, but the cost of £600 - £800 for what I wanted was not an option. Thanks to Werk and the WeatherDuino, I have a system (with the addition of Davis wind and rain instruments) that I beleive is equal in performance and accuracy to the Davis station, but at a very small fraction of the cost. Actually, if the air particle "module" which is currently being worked on *is* successfully added, WeatherDuino will be the *only* system I know of with such remarkable capability.

Best regards,

Allan.

Thanks, Allan.

I'm trying to understand whether I should build the Pro2 PLUS or the standard Pro2.

In terms of technical architecture, I think it could make more sense for me (others will have different use cases) to keep the RX basic, just working as an RX, and have extra functionality like data display, longer-timescale data logging, wifi/internet upload, etc on a more powerful machine like a Raspberry Pi. Interesting. I'm undecided.

[AllanG]

Thanks, Allan.

I'm trying to understand whether I should build the Pro2 PLUS or the standard Pro2.

In terms of technical architecture, I think it could make more sense for me (others will have different use cases) to keep the RX basic, just working as an RX, and have extra functionality like data display, longer-timescale data logging, wifi/internet upload, etc on a more powerful machine like a Raspberry Pi. Interesting. I'm undecided.

I think that's very wise, John. I would recommend anyone thinking about the WeatherDuino should:

1. Remember that this is NOT a "plug and play" system. It requires at least a sound understanding of electronic design and construction techniques and the ability to solder small components accurately.
   
2. Think, as you are, about what it is you want to achieve as it varies enormously. Some people here want to be able to see from the comfort of their house what the weather is outside. One of our Australian friends however are keeping an eye on an entire farm including weather conditions for the remote landing strip, another is monitoring the water level in the supply tank as well as weather conditions and there are all kinds of ideas in between. As I said this is a *very* versatile system...!
   
3. Once you've decided, carefully PLAN your station. Issues such as the distance that cables must run to sensors, where the outside transmitter will be located and powered etc. will be important considerations when you build.
   

The WeatherDuino tx is obviously the source of all information which it (or "they" - you can use several tx units if necessary) can gather from a wide range of sensors. The rx units, equally obviously, receive the information and so is essential whether you only only want to display it locally or upload it to websites (using either a PC or Raspberry Pi) as a number of us do, usually using the superb Cumulus software - these, including my own, are all "WeatherDuino powered" sites: 

http://www.meteocercal.info/forum/Thread...r-stations

In my case, I'm currently using a v5.02 rx board with a 4x20 LCD character display. Along the transmitter it has been working perfectly for well over a year now. I've decided to upgrade to the PLUS board partly because of the increased functionality which the Meduino Mega provides, but also because of the much easier to use touch LCD digital display. "Your mileage may vary" though, as they say!!

I hope this is helpful and I've not been trying to tell you things you already know...

Allan.

[clubjoker]

Thanks again, Allan. Yep, I enjoy this sort of thing.

So: the answer appears to be simply that the (newer) +RX printed circuit board (€52.90) is a bit bigger with more complex layout than the RX PCB (€17.90), and has a wifi chip on it. RX+ is not more "prebuilt" than RX or anything obvious like that.

[werk_ag]

Hi John

Welcome and thank your for your interest in the WeatherDuino Pro2 project.

RX+ is not more "prebuilt" than RX or anything obvious like that.

By the contrary, the Pro2 PLUS RX is an almost fully assembled system, in which the user just have to add some very standard parts (RX / TX modules, their own choice of ATM, Temp / Hum sensor and a few pin headers). The chance of error in assembling a Pro2 PLUS is minimal.

Trying to reply to your question about the higher price of the Pro2 PLUS RX compared with the regular Pro2 RX.

Some aspects, as a bigger PCB, have already been explained by AllanG, but there are others:

- The Pro2 PLUS have more electronic parts than the Pro2. However is not only the cost of the additional parts that justifies its higher price, which most increases their price is the assembling cost of the pre assembled parts. The quantities of PCB I can buy at once aren't enough to justify assembling by a pick and place machine, so they are assembled by hand. The cost of manual assembling is higher.

- Development costs (hardware and software).

Despite now we have the Pro2 PLUS, we don't consider the regular Pro2 as obsolete or discontinued, by the contrary, it is a very capable system, and will continue to be available. Its only "problem" is the limited amount of memory of the Arduino Nano, which will limit adding new functionalities.

[JT118]

If I can add my thoughts if you are new to this.

If I were starting from scratch and with the benefit of hindsight:

I would get an RX 5.0 or 6.0, 2 of TX boards, and one soil sensor interface and one solar/UV interface. This will give you the same capability as the most expensive Davis station see link below.

Then, if I wished to keep cost low, from Maplins buy an anemometer £2.50,  a wind vane £9.99 and a rain gauge £4.99 using FO stuff, this is just to get you started, but beware the maplin stuff is cheap, and at best you will read a representation of the weather with little accuracy and less precision particularly the rain gauge.

With luck and perseverance ebay will yield something like this:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Weather-Statio...true&rt=nc

but you may have to wait ages to get this kind on thing:

If you want to spend more (and get far better readings) try the Davis stuff, I have a thread on the forum where I post ebay sales that might be useful, someone bought the Davis wind vane and anemometer I posted about recently for £70.00 (perhaps from this forum). Using ebay you should be able to get Davis Wind Vane/anemometer for about £70.00 or less if you are lucky and a Davis rain gauge for £50.00 or less. Don't forget radiation shields for the T/H sensors, often difficult to find unless you spend £77.00 on a new Davis one. You can make your own.

New prices for these as below but careful searching on ebay you will get for about the prices above (type "Davis Weather" into ebay search.)
http://www.skyview.co.uk/acatalog/DAV_6410.html
http://www.skyview.co.uk/acatalog/DAV_7852.html
http://www.skyview.co.uk/acatalog/DAV_7714.html

Then a couple of SHT11 and or SHT21 T/H sensors, 4 or 5 DS18B20 temp sensors (soil):

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Digital-SHT21-...SwopRYkmil
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-SHT11-Humi...SwopRYfzfn
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Temperature-Hu...5zqwH8aPpA
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1-2-5-10-DS18B...1T2fjKXJNg

For less than £100.0 with Maplin instruments, or less than £200 with Davis, you get the equivalent of this:

http://www.skyview.co.uk/acatalog/DAV_6162UK.html

and this:

http://www.skyview.co.uk/acatalog/DAV_6345CSOV.html

Don't know if this is of interest but might be useful when starting out.

[clubjoker]

If I can add my thoughts if you are new to this.

If I were starting from scratch and with the benefit of hindsight:
...

Thanks, JT118. There's some GOLD advice there for me, and anyone else starting out here. Much appreciated!
I'll let you all know how I get on

[clubjoker]

In the end, I got both an RX v5.02 PCB and an RX+ v1.3 PCB, thinking I'd build more than one receiver, perhaps in future to use in systems at different locations.

Looking at them confirms what was said above by AllanG and Werk_AG:
- the RX+ is a bigger, more complex (more traces, holes, contact points) board than the RX
- the RX+ has several components pre-soldered onto the board, including surface-mounted passive components (resistors, capacitors), whereas the RX needs to have through-hole passive components added. These passive components are cheap to buy, but the extra time (=cost) taken to fit them to the RX+ is clear.
- the RX+ includes a wifi chip

I can also understand that the RX+ is being sold with a modest and entirely justified mark-up.

All boards seem to be top quality.